and dallas mavericks team offered their products for sale with dogecoin. they set a record. as larry kudlow said, it's no joke. i'm sandra smith. >> john: i'm john roberts. "the story" with martha maccallum stars right now. >> martha: i'm martha maccallum in new york. this is a story breaking right now. an armed suspect is on the run in the new york city area. this man on the right-hand side of your screen is gabriel wilson. he's been identified by the police in west hempstead about 30 miles east of new york city. he's a person of interest in this shooting that has left at least one person dead. two wounded inside a stop and shop grocery store. officials say that he was and still may be an employee at that store. the man that he fatally shot worked at the store as well.

this one describing how she felt herself shopping one minute and looking for a place to hide from gun fire the next. >> we just sort of banded together. we were trying to figure out in the produce department, there's places to hide under the counter. so we were trying to figure out if the shooter came along that we had a place to go. >> martha: this is the the world we live in right now. nancy grace is standing by with details and her analysis in a moment. we begin on the ground in west hempstead with alex hogan who has been covering the story. >> hi, martha. a tragic and sad day. a shooting here. hundreds of people in the grocery store down the road behind me when gun fair rang out. police escorted the people out with their hands up in the air. we're told the shooting took

place not where people were shopping but on the second floor near the manager's office. we know three people at least have been shot. two of them injured. they're hospitalized, but they're safely recovering. we're told their identities have not within released and there's the death of a 49-year-old man. we heard that there's two 49-year-olds that worked there. they're trying to figure out the man's identity. police not releaing that as they notified next of kin. they did release information about the man in question. his name is gabriel dewitt wilson. he's reportedly on the run with schools in the area told to lock down. people that live around here told to remain in their homes with the doors locked as well. police gave more info. take a listen. >> he's 6'2", approximately 30 years of age, wearing a black baseball hat a black sweatshirt

and last seen westbound on the turnpike. we have over 150 assets looking for mr. dewitt to question him. >> the stop-n-shop responding that we're heart broken by this act of violence. the hearts go out to the families of the victims, our associates and first responders that responded heroically to this tragic situation. this shopping center behind me is 30 miles outside of new york city, an hour away. we'll continue to wait for more details. there's a press conference that should be beginning in moments from now. martha? >> all right. he's on the loose on the run and there's over 100 officers that are searching the entire area for him right now. alex hogan, thanks very much. we'll go back there as soon as news breaks. my next guest was pulling into this store while this was unfolding. liz cooley is a resident of west hempstead and joins me now. thanks for being here today.

you know, we see these things all the time happening sadly across the country. today it happened at a place where you were. what can you tell us about what happened? >> i just dropped my 3-year-old nephew off at the baby sitter. i was passing stop-n-shop. i thought let me run in. i pulled in and found a parking spot. i noticed people were coming out quickly. i got out and took my bag and walked towards the building. there was one woman that rushed past me. a man said too me, don't go in there. there's an active shooter. get back in your car. so i quickly ran back to my car. there was a woman that was packing her damages in to the car. she said you got to get out of here. so i got in my car and i left. then i noticed there were two or

three police cars there. they were running into action putting on their helmets and bulletproof vests or whatever the gear is. they were on the outskirts of the building. >> martha: do you live far from there and how do you feel about the fact that the person is out there right now and they said he's likely armed with the handgun? >> well, people are saying that there's a big police presence about a mile away in hempstead where he apparently is a resident. so they're on that side of that mile. stop-n-shop is a half a mile away. >> that may be why they postponed the news conference.

>> martha: thanks, elizabeth. joined now by nancy grace from "america's most wanted" on fox nation. she agreed to talk to us about the derek chauvin trial and we'll do that. but first, your response to -- remind me of the king supers in boulder. you wonder if this individual saw that and thought maybe i'll try something like that. >> clearly a copycat crime. gives people the idea to do the same thing. right now, you think i can't do anything about the one dead and two injuries. by the way, 200 people in the stop-n-shop when he opened fire upstairs. clearly this is motivated. point blank range. he knew who he was shooting. armed with a small device. i'd imagine a 22 caliber if it was that small and still has it.

reminds me of the fulton county courthouse shooter that got away and went on the run. if i know a criminal, they go where they're most comfortable. his old neighborhood, his mother's house a friend's house, his own house. some where where he feels he can hide out and not be caught. that's where cops need to be looking. >> martha: a great analogy. i remember in the fulton county courthouse story, he broke into a woman's house and she talked him through the whole thing. she survived and one of the main instrumental people in getting him to turn himself in. an extraordinary story. that's unfolding as we speak. i want your thoughts on the chauvin trial as they head into how many hours right now. over ten at least of this deliberating what do you think so far? >> yes, four or five hours yesterday. started at 8:00 a.m. i would sit exactly where the

lawyers are right now think what is taking so long? i'll tell you what, they're sequestered for jury deliberations. i wish they were sequestered the whole team. because maxine waters and no offense, the president had to give their comments on the verdict. almost guaranteeing a mistrial if the jurors heard it and affected their impartiality. they just got sequestered yesterday morning. maxine waters was speaking out on the verdict on saturday. so they very well could have heard that. >> martha: absolutely. >> what are they doing? they have to go through each of these three counts. a murder 2, murder 3 and a voluntary man slaughter. i think the best possibility of a conviction is going to be a felony murder charge. which is a murder 2 without intent. means you're committing a felony, felony excessive force,

assault and a death occurs. that's the best alternative. i think there will be a conviction. they're going through all of this evidence. they have to be unanimous on all the verdicts or hang. mistry. >> martha: both sides did yeomans duty laying out potential doubt. the video is so damning. but they have a lot to think about. they heard about his condition and all of it from both sides. >> his condition? you mean his heart? >> and the drugs. >> and the drugs. >> two things that the defense will try to get -- they're going to try to peel off one of the jurors and plan doubt in their mind, right? >> that's all they have to do. get one for a hung jury. do i think it's going to happen? no. should i believe them or my lying eyes? i saw the video. i don't care if he has an enlarged heart. when you have your wind pipe cut

off, you're going to dial. it will take awhile. >> martha: none other than o.j. simpson weighed in on this. i remember you from covering that trial. we watched every second of that i'm going to play this tape for you because he just released this and get your response. here's o.j. >> representative maxine waters is concerned. i understood what she was saying. it was a call not to arm physical arms but a cause to come out and work and vote. but she's got to understand her words matter. she's got to be a lot clearer in how she says them. you can't be critical of the other side saying you have to fight. >> martha: your response, nancy. >> number 1, i'm worried that somebody might listen to him. that's not what maxine waters.

last time i checked, she doesn't have a j.d. she didn't say get out and vote. she said to protest more and be more confrontational in the street and should be a verdict of guilty, guilty, guilty. look a lot of us may believe that chauvin is guilty but that's up to a jury, not me and certainly not them. speaking of o.j. simpson, please. i guess he knows a lot about the justice system since he's a double killer. >> martha: yeah. lived to tell about it and be back on twitter and making judgments on this case and on -- >> and making us listen to him. >> martha: exactly. so we'll move on from that. the judge indicated that -- by the way, you made a great point about the president weighing in on this. saying what kind of verdict he expects. we know that he spoke to the floyd family. that will come into play here. we'll talk about that in the next segment. the judge has indicated that he's going to hold the verdict

for an appropriate time. if it comes out thursday night at 8:00 p.m., he will wait until the morning to actually release answer announce this verdict. your thoughts on that. >> that may be wise to avoid protests worse than we expect them to be. on the other hand, that may be what he's saying. that may not be what he actually does. so we'll see what happens. he's not going to declare a mistrial. he's going to wait and see what the jury says. if you try to declare a mistrial, you have to show a, the jurors heard it and b that it affected their impartiality. i don't think they're paying to when a politician has to say on this. >> martha: thanks, nancy. great to have you with us. so as america's readies for the verdict in this trial as president biden says he's praying for the right outcome, what does that mean? leo terrell and mercedes coleman

now weigh-in next. >> i'm praying the verdict is the right verdict, it's overwhelming in my view. i wouldn't say that if the jury wasn't sequestered now. if you printed out directions to get here today, you're in the right place. my seminars are a great tool to help young homeowners who are turning into their parents. now, remember, they're not programs. they're tv shows. you woke up early. no one cares. yes. so, i was using something called homequote explorer from progressive to easily compare home insurance rates. was i hashtagging? progressive can't help you from becoming your parents, but we can help you compare rates on home insurance with homequote explorer. guess what. the waiter doesn't need to know your name.

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>> martha: breaking right now a news conference out of long island. the suspect is now in custody after a fatal shooting at a grocery store in west hempstead. in the minneapolis, the jury is now in hour ten of their deliberations in the hennepin county courthouse. as president biden has weighed

in on his hoped outcome for all of this, he said he called the floyd family and spoke to them and said he was "praying for the right verdict." watch and listen closely to the president just a short time ago. >> i waited till the jury was sequestered. i called. i called for peace and tranquillity no matter what that verdict is. i'm praying the verdict is the the right verdict, which is overwhelming in my view. i wouldn't say that unless the jury was sequesters. >> martha: okay. true. they are see questered now. one can hope they're not hearing maxine waters or the president weigh-in on the hugely controversial things that she said that perhaps may get her censured. maxine waters as she riled up an already very tense crowd in brooklyn center. watch this. >> we have to stay on the

streets and get more active. more confrontational. you have to make sure that they know we mean business. >> martha: so the judge was clearly shocked at waters' call for a specific outcome from the jury. there's no word on what he thinks the president said from the white house as this jury deliberates. >> i'll give you that congresswoman waters may have given you something on appeal that may result in in trial being overturned. >> martha: let's bring in mercedes coleman, criminal defense attorney and leo terrell, fox news contributor and civil rights attorney. thanks for being here this afternoon. mercedes, let's start with you. what is your reaction from the white house, from the president while this jury is in the middle of their deliberations? >> well, he did wait until they were sequestered, which is very key. the only way that you can get a

mistrial or a return on appeal is if the impartiality of the jury has been breached and affected. but president biden did wait until they were sequestered. didn't say which way hi wanted the verdict to come down. simply said if someone were in interpreting this, the right outcome based on the weight of the evidence. at this point, there's no grounds for the judge to grant a mistrial if the defense attorney comes forward and says that he needs one.just a note, martha, this defense attorney has asked this judge many times for a mistrial. the first is when the settlement of $27 million to the george floyd family. second was dwayne wright, what happened to him a couple weeks ago with the shooting. again, multiple times in the final day of the trial. so there have been multiple requests. the judge continues to say i'm using curative instructions and giving them to the jury.

he doesn't believe the jury is anything but impartial. >> martha: leo, my question is about the respect for rule of law and due process. it's very firsting for either one of these individuals as the verdict comes in to say if it's right or wrong, agree or disagree. everyone in this country has seen this video and how damning it is and difficult it is to watch the death of this man on the street under the knee of derek chauvin. the fact of the matter is and we watched in brooklyn center, the city manager, the poor guy that said i don't want to comment on this, we want do process, let the people go through the process before we start firing people, it's almost as if that is not supposed to exist anymore in this country, in this process, leo. >> well, i agree with you 100%. i disagree with mercedes. joe biden is a lawyer. he knows better.

because the jury is sequesters, they assume that they can't get the information. he as a lawyer and the president should have waited until the verdict is over. he didn't do it. the game is this. the democrats are using any form of the george floyd case for political advantage. and he basically stated that he believes the evidence is over welling. he has picked a side. keep your mouth shut until the end. i can't even justify maxine. her comments are deplorable. deplorable. she knew her statements would lead to possible rioting. she told people to challenge trump republicans in the street. ask sarah huckabee sanders what happened to her. maxine waters know her words have impact. >> martha: here's judge cahill and elected officials speaking out. watch. >> i wish elected officials would stop talking about this

case, especially in a manner disrespectful to the rule of law. if they want their opinions, do for in a manner that is consistent with their oath to the constitution, to respect a co-equal branch of government. their failure to do so is abhorrent. >> martha: maxine waters and the president said they wanted the right verdict. she said if you don't get the right verdict, you should get back out in the street. we saw what happened when president trump said he thought people should fight. he said she thought people should fight over this. there's such an imbalance of the way those two comments were perceived. one side says it and means nothing. the other side is not allowed to say it and it mines everything, mercedes. >> judge cahill did express his frustration. there's three branches of government. the executive, legislative and judicial bran. let the judicial process go

forward. that's what he expressed on the record. although at the very end, he still denies the mistrial. but it was a cautionary note. said to the defense attorney, you may have cause for appeal but at this point in time, i'm denying your motion for a mistrial. he did say there was frustration because these branches of government have not been upheld. >> martha: thanks. good to see you both. it would be good if everybody held their fire until the verdict comes down. they have a lot on their plates. thank you both. good to see you. any moment we'll expect a live news conference from nassau county police. they took him in custody. we'll take you there live as they step forward and hear how they found out and what happened when they did. up next, we're going to go back

to the chauvin verdict. the minnesota republican that is taking a cue from florida governor ron desantis to try to crack down on rioters who may try to do more of the burning and looting that we've seen in the past in history when we come back. >> we want people to peacefully protest when they feel the need. this is a riot. this will get you locked up before quit.

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>> i support them looting the [bleep] dollar tree and loot [bleep] you know why. they could loot all they want and would not come close to the debt that america owes us. >> martha: that's kim brown in a youtube program called "burn it down." she's a proponent of looting and rioting in the city. you can see why minneapolis looks like a fortress at this point. they have 3,000 national guard troops that are already there ahead of the verdict. the rioters should think twice after what happened in a rioting

charge. the senator wants them to lose their aid, like housing subsidies, food stamps in the like. senator, good to have you with us today. tell me, why do you think this is the most effective way to go about this? to put the message out that they would lose any state benefits that they would have? >> we have to make a point mere. city and county attorneys have to prosecute the law. it's catch and release. we have sportsmen that love to catch and release walleyes. that doesn't work with criminals. we have to get people's attention. if that means eliminating access to the taxpayer's wallet, this says if you're going to protest and throw a brick through a window, if you're going to loot a cell phone store, if you're

going to attack police and frozen pop cans at cops and shooting at national guardmen, if you're going to do this in a protest we're going to hold you accountable and not let you have money anymore. >> martha: we have breaking news. it's big. there's a verdict reached in derek chauvin's murder trial. we'll have it at 4:30 eastern time. it's tuesday afternoon. in minneapolis after a second day of deliberating in this trial, they've been at it about 11 hours, somewhere in that area at this point. this jury of 12 men and women have indeed reached a verdict in derek chauvin's trial. we want to bring back our guest, state senator from minnesota. your thoughts on the fact that we're about to get a verdict in

this trial in your state. >> well, hopefully we have a verdict that makes sense. if it's justice and not a rush to judgment. listening to what the president said, he made his decision. there's 12 people that will make a decision based on the facts. whatever decision they make, i respect their decision because they put in the time to listen to the case and move forward from there. >> martha: what about your concerns about your city at this point. do you feel like the protections in place will be enough to keep law-abiting peaceful citizens safe in their homes? >> i hope so. yesterday we passed an additional funding of over $10 million to help that was requested by the governor of the state of minnesota to have the delicious policing. we're bringing in other police to help us. we activated the national guard. we've done a job to not let what

happened last summer to repeat itself. those people looting, it's time to hold you accountable. it's not time to no longer be receiving funds from us if you're in minnesota from our wallets if you decide to do this criminal behavior. if you're not pro -- if you're protesting and not breaking the law, the law i'm crying to create doesn't a play to you. >> martha: there's a verdict in already. your thoughts on that. >> you're right, this is a starting point. we're talking about a financial impact. the folks in florida -- i wish i had that governor up here. he's strong telling people. they're creating felons there. in minnesota they're saying we're going to take our state money away from you. i appreciate what florida is doing to put teeth into the situation and telling city attorneys that you must

prosecute these people. don't ignore and do do catch and release. >> martha: look at the duante wright case and the fact that the city manager was let go and how it came about. after he stood at that news conference and said that he didn't want to to talk about firing the officers involved. there was a process that needed to be gone through quite clearly for everyone to take a breath and allow the process that is fair and equitable and in place. he lost his job for even suggesting that taking a moment to go through that was worth while, is merited. >> that is what the mayor said. it was a disgrace. i was a city councilman almost 12 years in my local town before i went to the state senate. no matter how bad a crime, no matter how guilty including i'll haved who just pulled out a gun and started shooting people in

new york state has a right to a trial and has a right to be presamed innocent until found guilty. that applies to not just citizens on the street, that also applied to our police officers and the city managers. unfortunately the mayor is being run by activists and protesters as opposed to doing his job. >> look at portland, for example. a city that has essentially become used to having fire, having looting, people in many cases get a slap on the wrist. they get arrested for an hour or so and get their picture and they're gone. very different from what you're talking about what you'd like to see in your home state of minnesota and what governor desantis is doing in florida. why is there such a discrepancy across america in response to this? >> i don't understand it.

i'm trying to get the attention of protesters and hold people criminals accountable for their actions. i sympathize with portland. nobody in the city government wants to stand up. it's time for minnesotans to stand up and say we're not accepting looting as a new form of civil disobedience. people have to stand up and say this. can't be me and others. >> martha: thanks very much. david, minnesota state senator. there's a verdict. it will come out in less than an hour. from where we are right now, the jurors, 12 of them have reached a verdict in the trial of derek chauvin. he's facing second and third degree murder and second degree manslaughter. we'll find out what they

decided. it's very quick, this decision. they began yesterday. leo terrell, civil rights attorney joins me again. leo, what do you take away from the fact that they're done, the jury? >> i don't like it for the defendant. he's in trouble. they have taken an initial vote and probably came up with a general can census that mr. chauvin's conduct was unlawful. the question which degree, second, third or manslaughter? this is not a good sign for the defendant. >> martha: derek chauvin is charged with three charges. this is may 25 that this event happened. memorial day weekend. i remember this day that this video started to circulate. everybody sat at their computers across the country in shock watching this play out for nine minutes.

derek chauvin leaned his knee into the neck and calling for police, calling for his mother, calling for air. it's very hard to watch the video. this is the process that plays out. now both sides have had their opportunity to lay out the case here. eric nelson for the defense. right now you have to wonder what is going through everybody's minds, leo. they know now that this is about to be shared with the rest of the country. >> two things i expect, martha. if they get a verdict, will this calm the city, the nation, the world down? question number 1. number 2, you know there will be an appeal. what will be the reaction to the maxine waters with regards to chaos in the second degree charge. the next 24 hours could be

telling. >> this former officer faces up to 40 years in prison if he's convicted on the strongest charge, which is second degree murder. the third degree murder charge which everybody play remember was eliminated at one point. the prosecution asked for it the be brought back in. it's tricky.you have had to endanger the life of one person. they were able to bring that back in saying the bistanders that we heard from, that they felt fearful in order that prevented them from stepping in and trying to stop what happened. then you have the second degree manslaughter charge, the shortest sentence would be ten years what will people find satisfying in this case. >> i agree. a two pronged issue. the verdict and the sentencing. those are the two issues. the number of years if he's

convicted, the sentencing and the actual verdict. those are the two issues. the question right now is the reaction of the jury but expect the jury to be whole. so if the verdict is consistent with their decision. you might expect each juror to be polled if they concur. >> martha: if you're the defense attorney and to my knowledge, leo, but to my knowledge, we haven't heard of any questions even that came back to the judge. can you clarify what is second the degree man slaughter or murder. do you have any idea about them? >> you know what? sometimes every jury is different. sometimes they go in after that

select a foreman, they do an initial poll. what i find unique here, there was not a single question which means that the jurors were very, very sure how they felt about the evidence. there's no questions. that tells you that it's basically a unanimous feeling among the jurors, the absence of questions. >> martha: they chose a foreman when they went in to the room. a lot of times we'll learn about the foreman. it's important in terms of speaking for the group and answering people's questions and concerns. no doubt we'll learn about that process and who the person is. i want to point out for anybody tuning in and about to go to the courthouse, there's a verdict in the former officer derek chauvin's murder case and man slaughter case for the death of george floyd. it's rocked the nation and

brought the issue of race to the forefront in a way that we've not seen in a long time. we've seen echos of other cases across the country that are so central to the conversation in everything from the workplace to schools. that is why this landmark case today or this very important case, i should say, in the context of what's going on in the country is going to be something that we'll all watch closely. here going to matt finn live in front of the courthouse right now in minneapolis. what can you tell us? >> martha, our understanding is there were no questions from the jury. our impression from the start is that this jury wanted to get to work. they had a long day yet. hours and hours of jury instruction and closing hours. at the end of the day, they decided to deliberate until 8:00 p.m. this morning they began at 8:00 local time. so our impression of the jury is

they were motivated. here we are. actually, the first full day of deliberations question now have a verdict. 14 days of trial, 44 witnesses. in summary, the prosecution argued that derek chauvin murdered george floyd, he was on his neck for too long and sucked the life out of him. telling the jury to believe their eyes. the defense arguing that derek chauvin was following his training. george floyd died from other contributing factors including his drug use and heart disease. we'll see what the jury will do in a couple hours. there's a lot of contradictory witness testimony over the three weeks. some medical experts testifying that it would conclusive of what george floyd died from. the doctors said that he died from a lack of oxygen underneath

derek chauvin's knee, martha. >> martha: before you go, quickly if you could recap for the folks at home aly about the jury. >> the jury is seven women, five men. six with white. predominantly a white females in this jury. four black jurors and two that identify as multiracial. they span the age of 20 to 60 years old. during the jury selection process, we sat in as dozens and dozens of jurors were struck because they said, you know, we were too intimidated, too afraid to sit on this injury. we wouldn't want our family or children to be harmed. others said they made a conclusion about the video. the jurors were sat, the judge said everyone knew something about this case. not a single juror was unaware of this case. so we'll see how they feel at the end of the trial, martha. >> martha: thanks, matt.

we know that the judge had discussions about moving the venue for the trial. one of the elements of that decision is there's such broad understanding of this case across. it's hard to find somewhere where you could hold this trial and not have people very familiar with it and have strong feelings about it. stand by as we wait for the verdict this afternoon in the derek chauvin case, she last been reached in the hennepin county courthouse in minnesota. joined by phone, mark eiglarsh. following us throughout the course of this. your thoughts on the fact that they're ready to go. >> this is great news for both sides. i don't think any side really wanted the trial to begin. i think the defense's best chance of finding one or two jurors that say i don't agree with the other people there.

we don't have anonymous decision and it's a hung injury. in the case, it will be mistried and we'll have to do it over again. >> martha: it interesting, mark. the prosecution was long. they brought on a lot of witnesses. they were criticized by some legal minds for doing that. and then the defense was short. some discussion that maybe derek chauvin would take the stand. he did not. you expressed your feelings about that being wise. we don't know yet. what we know is they reached a quick decision. what we don't know at this point is what the decision is. you know -- >> hold on. don't call it quick, martha. i don't know. is it quick? how long is -- we've seen the video. listen to the testimony. this had hours to go back.

they all agree to anonymous decision. my guess is that they believe the conduct was criminal and not excusable like the defense suggested. i don't know if it's quick or not. i don't think they owed us more time in the jury room. >> martha: so as i said, we don't know where they are at this point. they may all look at that tape and say he's guilty of man slaughter. it's a recklessness in the way he treated george floyd. on the other end of the spectrum, they may have decided that he's guilty of a felony assault, second degree murder. any thoughts on that? >> you know what? anyone that is saying that they know the jury is going to go presupposes that they know each one of these jurors and how they will think as relates to the evidence. nobody knows. pure speculation. that said, it's not unreasonable

for jurors to conclude that his actions were not lawful. there wasn't a single expert that opined that the behavior was a reasonable use of force. that said, it could be any one of the charges and all 40 if they wanted to go that way. >> martha: stand by, if you can. we hearing you but your audio is not as clear as we'd like it to be. so stand by. we'll work on that. we want to bring in mercedes coleman, fox news legal analyst and defense attorney. if you're the defense attorney for derek chauvin, what is going through your mind? >> unfortunately for them, i'm sure they hoped and prayed for a hung jury. it's a conviction. any defense attorney will tell you the quickter jury comes to a verdict, the more likelihood it is that the defendant will be found guilty. one of the interesting things that the judge did which not many judges do, he read the jury

instructions prior to closing statements. so with closing arguments coming after the jury instructions, what happens is the opposite. you have the closing arguments and the instructions. there's a numbing effect. by having judge cahill do it prior, the judge could plug in the facts argued by each side into the element and then of course debate whether any of the defense rose to the point that a convulsion would not be read. >> martha: that was an interesting turn of what the judge said. >> a main point of what the jury said. a great point. he laid out the instructions first and then they listened to the closing arguments. if they had any questions about how the pieces fit together and who their charge was in term of how to determine how they spoke about the case, this would have come quickly. as matt finn reported, there were no questions about the jury from what their mission is ahead of them in finding this derek

chauvin guilty or innocent. mercedes, stay with us. i want to bring in jonathan turley. i want your thoughts on the timing on this and what you've seen play out today. >> as a criminal defense attorney, i can tell you that you really loathe getting a call this soon after a jury goes into deliberation for me. this is a fast turn around in a case with this record, this is a lot of material to go through. it also has different legal standards with murder an manslaughter. leaves questions about the burden. usually jurors tend to get caught up in those distinctions and you often have questions that go to the judge. this is a very fast turn around.

no question. that is bad news for the defense. >> both sides, the prosecution and the defense said the prosecution said if you believe that the knee on his neck was the substantial reason that he lost his life, not the entire reason, but the substantial reason, more than anything else perhaps, then on the other side, we understand that all of these things were factors but because there were several factors, you need to find him innocent or guilty of a lesser charge in this case. it's interesting that they both left room for these jurors to see it each way. yet they have reached a very quick decision. >> that's right. i said this was a stronger manslaughter than a murder case. i still believe that. what i find interesting about this fast turn around is what will happen with those two murder counts. you know, whether they saw it with clarity as to the

distinction with murder or manslaughter or clearly murder. from a defense standpoint, this case has the possible challenge of a video tape. human beings are visual creatures. they really are impacted greatly by videotapes. there's no more disturbing and gut wrenching tape that i've seen of george floyd. it's very hard for a defense attorney to defend. so right now it's a quick turn around. the old adage, i had a case where the jury is denounced for a very long time. this still came down on all counts. so that's not always true. a very quick turn around in a

case like this one is not good news for the defense. >> martha: and then there's the time of the table. how long derek chauvin is -- how long his knee is on george floyd's neck. did he have opportunities to restrain him. did he need to pin him down at any given point. and then from there on in, in the opening arguments by the prosecution, at what point did he no longer need to do that. at what point did he have him in control and put him in the squad car and proceeded with this case. the time and the overnine minutes is one of the big factors here, i'm sure as these juries consider this. >> yeah. that's why i think that the defense struggles mightily to change the time frame. i tell my students all the time that the outcome of trials are based not just on the narrative

but how you frame the action, the time frame itself. this was a classic example of that. the prosecution kept on focussing the jury on that nine minutes and 24 seconds, getting them to focus on that theory. the defense struggles to try to bring in a broader time frame. that can be very hard when you have this video that just is in your brain. once you see it, you can't unsee it. that was a struggle at the beginning, the end for the defense. the defense did a very good job in trying to brace this up, get the jury to focus more on what occurred before that nine minutes. but it's awfully hard. jonathan turley, thanks. stand by. we have more coverage. we have trey gowdy. good to have you with us this afternoon. your take on this. we're waiting. it's going to happen between

4:30 and 5:00 east coast time. we're very close to hearing a verdict. >> yes, ma'am, no questions from the jury is not a good sign if you're a defense attorney. sometimes defense attorneys, when they think they're going to lose, they judge success based on the numbers of questions or doubt that they can put in the jury's mind. no questions. a relatively quick verdict in terms of homicide cases with the number of exhibits. i think the reason the jury is not deliberating long is usually in homicide cases or any other kind of case, you have witness testimony and you have to assess credibility. it takes awhile to do that. to decide whether or not someone has the indicia of believability. in this case, you have videotape. you can watch with your own two eyes what happened and that's why you have a relatively quick

verdict. >> martha: i think back to the early part of the prosecution's case, tray. the testimony from the bystanders, they were another set of eyes for the jurors. they heard people testify. i was standing by. they kept saying get off him, you're hurting him. it is just an incredible, awful tragic microcosm of human nature that you watch play out in the 9 minutes and 20 seconds. >> martha, in the courtroom you look for corroboration. you have witnesses that you think are credible. you want the jury to find credible. something to make the jury believe those witnesses. well, you had the best piece of corroboration you can possibly have, which is the videotape. so you have these lay witnesses giving use a first-hand account

of what they experienced and saw. meanwhile, you can trust your own eyes. you don't have to rely on the word of someone else. so it's the highest form of corroboration that you can have, which is what prosecutors always want. >> martha: trey, stand by. as i mentioned and we're in breaking news environment right now. we're going to get the verdict most likely in about 33 minutes from now. somewhere between 4:30 and 5:00 east coast time. so what happens here is everybody is coming back to the courtroom, anybody that left will be there, is returning. the jury is getting ready for their moment as they roll this out in covid times. this is all looked different with the plexsy glass partitions that have been part of the scene here in the courtroom. we have a great group of people that have been following this closely with us. i'm glad to be joined by lawrence jones. your thought. >> i have to say i'm surprised that it's coming in so quickly.

to get any american a degree on anything so quickly tells you a lot. we don't know what they agreed on but they agreed on something. we didn't hear anything about questions. typically when there's a hung injury, they will have questions, tell the judge, look, we haven't gotten to a decision and the judge will send them back. we didn't see that happen this time. i can't help but see what the prosecution's strategy was throughout this case. that was to show that tape as many times as they could. even if you reflect on the closing statement, the prosecution said nine minutes and 29 seconds over seven times. they wanted it to play in the head of the jury over and over. it is true that in criminal court, everything is about the facts. but as my job as a private

investigator where i was gathering information about the jury for that criminal defense attorney, it is playing to their emotion as well. so there was a balance of taking the fact and delivering them in a way where it struck at each and every one of them. there's a profile for every juror. they're playing to that. this is why you saw the star tribute in minnesota. they released the information about the background of the jury. that matters in this case. we don't think that it does, but the research and over and over again, the makeup of jury does matter. >> martha: a great point. once the jury is assembled, they brought the witnesses. they have a big list. but once they know who they're speaking to, they'll pair them out and bring in other people to fit the case. we obviously are having continuing coverage. this is breaking news mode here at fox.

we'll cover this throughout the afternoon. lawrence jones, thanks very much for joining me and everybody that has been here. we'll continue to hear from the voices throughout the rest of the day. neil cavuto will take you through the next hour. i'll see you back here tomorrow. >> neil: derek chauvin is facing three charges, any one of these carrying anywhere from 10 to 40 years in prison. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto, this is "your world." fixated on a development that has now gripped the nation's attention and the decision on wh